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	<title>Comments for Immigration, Assimilation, Ethnicity and All That Jazz</title>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 03:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on OMG, Stereotypes! by uglyblackjohn</title>
		<link>http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/2008/07/16/omg-stereotypes/#comment-434</link>
		<dc:creator>uglyblackjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 01:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/?p=102#comment-434</guid>
		<description>No, but I have heard a woman speak in Ebonics and then turned around to see that she was Asian. I've heard white males and females who speak more ethnicly than me. Maybe it's the Hip-Hop culture or Bet or growing up in the hood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, but I have heard a woman speak in Ebonics and then turned around to see that she was Asian. I&#8217;ve heard white males and females who speak more ethnicly than me. Maybe it&#8217;s the Hip-Hop culture or Bet or growing up in the hood.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Integration is really a class/education thing? by Di</title>
		<link>http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/integration-is-really-a-classeducation-thing/#comment-423</link>
		<dc:creator>Di</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-423</guid>
		<description>I think both age and education play a big role in integration and acculturation. 

I am a recent immigrant to the US, with a college education and spoke the language before moving here. I have choosen to assimilate some things and not others, like racism, because they go against my cutoms.

When people migrate during formative years they tend to get socialized with the local customs, while some may continue to have values from the homeland, some even reject them.

If people do not speak the language, they tend to stay with 'their own' which slows down the acculturation process.

Di.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think both age and education play a big role in integration and acculturation. </p>
<p>I am a recent immigrant to the US, with a college education and spoke the language before moving here. I have choosen to assimilate some things and not others, like racism, because they go against my cutoms.</p>
<p>When people migrate during formative years they tend to get socialized with the local customs, while some may continue to have values from the homeland, some even reject them.</p>
<p>If people do not speak the language, they tend to stay with &#8216;their own&#8217; which slows down the acculturation process.</p>
<p>Di.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Integration is really a class/education thing? by chinesecanuck</title>
		<link>http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/integration-is-really-a-classeducation-thing/#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>chinesecanuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-422</guid>
		<description>Scapegoat:

Did these CBCs commute to school, or did they go to school out of town?  What about their parents?  Do their parents have university degrees, especially degrees from abroad?  Also, there's the question of *WHEN* their parents came to the country.  Older generation CBCs (eary Gen Xers and baby boomers, for example) are more traditional than those who came later (post 1968).  The most westernized ones are the tai-tais and their children, who came in the 1980s.  At least in my experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scapegoat:</p>
<p>Did these CBCs commute to school, or did they go to school out of town?  What about their parents?  Do their parents have university degrees, especially degrees from abroad?  Also, there&#8217;s the question of *WHEN* their parents came to the country.  Older generation CBCs (eary Gen Xers and baby boomers, for example) are more traditional than those who came later (post 1968).  The most westernized ones are the tai-tais and their children, who came in the 1980s.  At least in my experience.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Integration is really a class/education thing? by Scapegoat</title>
		<link>http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/integration-is-really-a-classeducation-thing/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>Scapegoat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 03:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-421</guid>
		<description>"Immigrants who are the most integrated, those who have picked up Anglo-Saxon values are those who were educated here. Why? Because they came young."

Would these Canadian-educated immigrants have educated parents?

I've known plenty of educated CBCs even (2nd generation Chinese) who retain some of the old country values. They have only CBC friends, only date CBCs, don't accept inter-racial relationships among their peers, marry their FIRST boyfriend/girlfriend, ask "How old are you?" (a question that is a no-no in Western ettiquette) and chew with their mouths open. In my old CBC social group, only one lady had a dog (an Anglo-Saxon tradition), and she was in an inter-racial relationship. I've known quite a few Chinese guys who want their wives to live with their moms. 

In Western culture, we tell it like it is. I've found that the CBC's had a tendency to bury their heads in the sand whenever I was blunt. However, my non-Chinese coworkers and ex-boyfriends have said that they like the fact that I say what's on my mind.

Integration is more than watching hockey or working in a Fortune 500 company. It's all those subtle behaviours that are a measure of one's integration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Immigrants who are the most integrated, those who have picked up Anglo-Saxon values are those who were educated here. Why? Because they came young.&#8221;</p>
<p>Would these Canadian-educated immigrants have educated parents?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve known plenty of educated CBCs even (2nd generation Chinese) who retain some of the old country values. They have only CBC friends, only date CBCs, don&#8217;t accept inter-racial relationships among their peers, marry their FIRST boyfriend/girlfriend, ask &#8220;How old are you?&#8221; (a question that is a no-no in Western ettiquette) and chew with their mouths open. In my old CBC social group, only one lady had a dog (an Anglo-Saxon tradition), and she was in an inter-racial relationship. I&#8217;ve known quite a few Chinese guys who want their wives to live with their moms. </p>
<p>In Western culture, we tell it like it is. I&#8217;ve found that the CBC&#8217;s had a tendency to bury their heads in the sand whenever I was blunt. However, my non-Chinese coworkers and ex-boyfriends have said that they like the fact that I say what&#8217;s on my mind.</p>
<p>Integration is more than watching hockey or working in a Fortune 500 company. It&#8217;s all those subtle behaviours that are a measure of one&#8217;s integration.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Integration is really a class/education thing? by Carol</title>
		<link>http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/integration-is-really-a-classeducation-thing/#comment-420</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 02:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-420</guid>
		<description>I just HAD to come and see what kind of blog a person who doesn't like POCKY (????) was like! Awesome commentary ... you are tackling some extremely hard themes. I agree with all the above, how "well" someone integrates is a function of education, socio-economic class, perhaps parentage if one comes from an influential family, generation, age when they "entered" the culture, conditioning on a somewhat philosophical/ideological level, parental values and attitudes, also mental/emotional health factors ... it's really hard to separate out the one thing that makes or breaks it. I am Korean-American, my own immigrant parents came over already with a very pro-Western upbringing. Both sides of the family were actively pro-democracy during the Korean War. My mom had been raised Catholic and my father converted during medical college. My dad already spoke fluent English (and German, go fig) even before stepping foot in the US. They both had university degrees when they arrived, as well, and settled into suburban, consumerist lifestyle fairly easily. But there always was a strong loyalty to "being" Korean, even though we were surrounded by so few. Hard to explain. I think the ideal scenario, when I think of my child anyway, is where one moves back and forth, seamlessly, effortlessly in both cultures, languages, familiar with customs, systems, "ways of doing things" etc., the true global citizen. My values being what they are, if we do choose to live outside the US someday, I probably will send my child to an international school (instead of local private school), or the American school. Not because I'm particularly patriotic, but so he gets an education that will enable him entry to go to university there or here. Sigh ... I guess I am an imperialist after all. No hope for me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just HAD to come and see what kind of blog a person who doesn&#8217;t like POCKY (????) was like! Awesome commentary &#8230; you are tackling some extremely hard themes. I agree with all the above, how &#8220;well&#8221; someone integrates is a function of education, socio-economic class, perhaps parentage if one comes from an influential family, generation, age when they &#8220;entered&#8221; the culture, conditioning on a somewhat philosophical/ideological level, parental values and attitudes, also mental/emotional health factors &#8230; it&#8217;s really hard to separate out the one thing that makes or breaks it. I am Korean-American, my own immigrant parents came over already with a very pro-Western upbringing. Both sides of the family were actively pro-democracy during the Korean War. My mom had been raised Catholic and my father converted during medical college. My dad already spoke fluent English (and German, go fig) even before stepping foot in the US. They both had university degrees when they arrived, as well, and settled into suburban, consumerist lifestyle fairly easily. But there always was a strong loyalty to &#8220;being&#8221; Korean, even though we were surrounded by so few. Hard to explain. I think the ideal scenario, when I think of my child anyway, is where one moves back and forth, seamlessly, effortlessly in both cultures, languages, familiar with customs, systems, &#8220;ways of doing things&#8221; etc., the true global citizen. My values being what they are, if we do choose to live outside the US someday, I probably will send my child to an international school (instead of local private school), or the American school. Not because I&#8217;m particularly patriotic, but so he gets an education that will enable him entry to go to university there or here. Sigh &#8230; I guess I am an imperialist after all. No hope for me!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Integration is really a class/education thing? by chinesecanuck</title>
		<link>http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/integration-is-really-a-classeducation-thing/#comment-418</link>
		<dc:creator>chinesecanuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-418</guid>
		<description>Tariq:  I was pretty clear in my post, but anyway, I meant the following:

Education: Going to formal school (boarding school for high school, college/university/grad school)

Educated:  In this case, at least a community college education

Integration/Integrated: In the case of this post, Anglo-Saxon values.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tariq:  I was pretty clear in my post, but anyway, I meant the following:</p>
<p>Education: Going to formal school (boarding school for high school, college/university/grad school)</p>
<p>Educated:  In this case, at least a community college education</p>
<p>Integration/Integrated: In the case of this post, Anglo-Saxon values.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Integration is really a class/education thing? by Nelson Yee</title>
		<link>http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/integration-is-really-a-classeducation-thing/#comment-417</link>
		<dc:creator>Nelson Yee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-417</guid>
		<description>Based on anecdotes, I think it's a combination of education and early exposure to Canadian/American values (not sure if I'd include Europe, as there are certainly countries that are still more "traditionalist", perhaps due to their longer history -- I wonder if the lack of a common sense of history is what allows people here to more easily leave behind tradition) that you describe.

I wonder about your conclusion that career exposure influences values; one could quite easily figure the inverse, that values influence career selection.  Certainly, I'm much more interested in world affairs and by extension finance, economics and law, than I am with purely "making money" or healing people.  It's interesting that you point out that doctors may be less "culturally Anglo" than lawyers or finance types; it sort of jives with the way my mother would point out medicine as a valuable profession mostly because of the high importance she (and I think many Chinese people) on health and wellness.  I can see both that and the small business interest as deriving from classical Asian pragmatism, seeking long term stability and good fortune, the benefits more obviously apparent than more nebulous concepts enshrined in law and high-level finance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on anecdotes, I think it&#8217;s a combination of education and early exposure to Canadian/American values (not sure if I&#8217;d include Europe, as there are certainly countries that are still more &#8220;traditionalist&#8221;, perhaps due to their longer history &#8212; I wonder if the lack of a common sense of history is what allows people here to more easily leave behind tradition) that you describe.</p>
<p>I wonder about your conclusion that career exposure influences values; one could quite easily figure the inverse, that values influence career selection.  Certainly, I&#8217;m much more interested in world affairs and by extension finance, economics and law, than I am with purely &#8220;making money&#8221; or healing people.  It&#8217;s interesting that you point out that doctors may be less &#8220;culturally Anglo&#8221; than lawyers or finance types; it sort of jives with the way my mother would point out medicine as a valuable profession mostly because of the high importance she (and I think many Chinese people) on health and wellness.  I can see both that and the small business interest as deriving from classical Asian pragmatism, seeking long term stability and good fortune, the benefits more obviously apparent than more nebulous concepts enshrined in law and high-level finance.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Integration is really a class/education thing? by abuhunain</title>
		<link>http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/integration-is-really-a-classeducation-thing/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>abuhunain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-416</guid>
		<description>To answer your questions: First, define "integration". Secondly, define "education". Third, define "educated".

Thanks &#38; peace,

Tariq</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer your questions: First, define &#8220;integration&#8221;. Secondly, define &#8220;education&#8221;. Third, define &#8220;educated&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thanks &amp; peace,</p>
<p>Tariq</p>
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		<title>Comment on Passing on Traditions and Keeping in Touch with One&#8217;s Roots by chinesecanuck</title>
		<link>http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/passing-on-traditions-and-keeping-in-touch-with-ones-roots/#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>chinesecanuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/?p=95#comment-408</guid>
		<description>The traditions I mentioned are things that most people know about.  There are also other elements like respecting elders (even my parents have put my grandparents in mature lifestyle homes), etc that were once emphasized (and still are in SOME households).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The traditions I mentioned are things that most people know about.  There are also other elements like respecting elders (even my parents have put my grandparents in mature lifestyle homes), etc that were once emphasized (and still are in SOME households).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Passing on Traditions and Keeping in Touch with One&#8217;s Roots by Nelson Yee</title>
		<link>http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/passing-on-traditions-and-keeping-in-touch-with-ones-roots/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>Nelson Yee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://chinesecanuck.wordpress.com/?p=95#comment-407</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure why that's a "but"?  I was just commenting that I felt future generations of Asian-Canadians could lose many of the elements of their parental/ancestral culture and still have a valid and interesting hybrid culture to pass on.  I wasn't commenting on your lack of identification with Wayson Choy/Amy Tan types.

In addition, re-reading your last paragraph, I'm not even sure what you feel there is beyond "language (speaking only), food, holidays like the Lunar New Year and Mid-Autumn Festival and perhaps one or two milestone traditions, such as a baby’s coming out/presentation at 30 days or wedding traditions" that would constitute Chinese culture?  Are these not elements of Chinese culture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure why that&#8217;s a &#8220;but&#8221;?  I was just commenting that I felt future generations of Asian-Canadians could lose many of the elements of their parental/ancestral culture and still have a valid and interesting hybrid culture to pass on.  I wasn&#8217;t commenting on your lack of identification with Wayson Choy/Amy Tan types.</p>
<p>In addition, re-reading your last paragraph, I&#8217;m not even sure what you feel there is beyond &#8220;language (speaking only), food, holidays like the Lunar New Year and Mid-Autumn Festival and perhaps one or two milestone traditions, such as a baby’s coming out/presentation at 30 days or wedding traditions&#8221; that would constitute Chinese culture?  Are these not elements of Chinese culture?</p>
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